W.A.S.P.?

[GaetanL]

I only have the first (S/T) album...

[introclaus]

I only have the first (S/T) album...

Damn ... you’ve got a long way to go then ...

There are some golden nuggets in there in US heavy metal history - the first two are obviously classics, but for me the best is undoubtedly “The Crimson Idol”, which is a rock opera with a story quite similar to Savatage’s “Streets”. The following album “Still not black enough” is awesome as well. I know at least here in the US their ‘89 album “The headless children” was their big hit album but for some reason that one didn’t do much for me.

The band had a strange period from mid 90’s through mid 00’s where they got an almost industrial edge to their metal which is an acquired taste. Only for hardcore WASP fans. I did catch them a few times live in that period and they were spot on. I only later found out that perhaps not all that glitters is gold but more about that later ...

Their “Neon God 1” and “Neon God 2” albums from ‘04 were quite great and seemed to build upon the same concept from “crimson idol”. Since then the albums have been far and between but of high quality with “Golgotha” from 2015 being the strongest album in 20 years. Also, the re-recording of “The crimson idol” from 2017 is great.

Now, blackie lawless is one of those “love him or hate him” people. Obviously keen to the shock value especially when he started out with blood, gore and sex in the stage shows and lyrics, but later on he apparently became a born-again-Christian ... oh well. According to his ex band members he is also a complete douche bag, which is pretty much the opinion I have of him after my one run-in with him when I arranged a show for him in Denmark ~15 years ago. One of my friends actually used to play in WASP for a short time, and he told me some stories, such as none of the musicians are actually plugged in and that it’s all play-back. Now, whether it’s true or not I can’t say, but I do know that every time I’ve seen them they sounded absolutely perfect! And, when I did my show with them in Denmark they kicked ALL of us (including me as the manager of the club) out of the venue when they did their “sound check” so .... ehhhm ...

That said, WASP is a legend in classic US heavy metal and I love a LOT of their albums. You have to try them all to find out what period you prefer, but if you like the debut, then try the next two (“the last command” and “inside the electric circus”), as they are quite similar. As mentioned, my favorite is “The crimson idol” so give that a shot as well.

[gazinwales]

You only really need the first two, they are the best.
Saw them a few years ago in Helsinki Tuska Festival, pretty obvious that Blackie was lip synching and we had our suspicions about the rest of the band.

[Locust0311]

The first 3 albums are fine for what they are, shock rock with little to no attempt to be anything else. Headless Children is where they *really* stepped up their game and I still think that one is my favorite, though the aforementioned Crimson Idol is amazing as well. Really the only album outside of the first 3 that I can do without is Helldorado, which was basically a lame attempt to recapture the feel of those albums. K.F.D. is pretty divisive because it does lean heavily into industrial sounds and is a bit of an outlier in their discography but I actually dig it quite a bit.

My recommendation is to try Headless Children and proceed from there if you like it.

[LarryD]

I only have the first (S/T) album...

***That's one more than I have .........

[Guillaume]

I only have the first (S/T) album...

***That's one more than I have .........

You're missing a lot!!

[Locust0311]

I only have the first (S/T) album...

***That's one more than I have .........

You're missing a lot!!

Honestly, based on my memory of Larry's dislike of Hansi's vocals it doesn't surprise me that he wouldn't like even good (THC and beyond) W.A.S.P. as I would consider Hansi the singer closest in sound to Blackie.

[LarryD]

***That's one more than I have .........

You're missing a lot!!

Honestly, based on my memory of Larry's dislike of Hansi's vocals it doesn't surprise me that he wouldn't like even good (THC and beyond) W.A.S.P. as I would consider Hansi the singer closest in sound to Blackie.

****Exactly right - although it goes a lot deeper than that ........ I never cared for the California hair metal bands of the 80s ..... in fact, I despised a lot of them. WASP was a band that I wouldn't even consider back then due to the antics they were pulling back in the day. I was never into shock rock to begin with ...... (other than Alice Cooper in the 70s if you consider that shock rock). I have a long list of bands that I could never stomach back in the day - WASP is on that list. I've always wanted to start a " what I hated about the 80s music " thread .... but then I figured why bother, there is too much good music out there to focus on the past.

[Locust0311]

You're missing a lot!!

Honestly, based on my memory of Larry's dislike of Hansi's vocals it doesn't surprise me that he wouldn't like even good (THC and beyond) W.A.S.P. as I would consider Hansi the singer closest in sound to Blackie.

****Exactly right - although it goes a lot deeper than that ........ I never cared for the California hair metal bands of the 80s ..... in fact, I despised a lot of them. WASP was a band that I wouldn't even consider back then due to the antics they were pulling back in the day. I was never into shock rock to begin with ...... (other than Alice Cooper in the 70s if you consider that shock rock). I have a long list of bands that I could never stomach back in the day - WASP is on that list. I've always wanted to start a " what I hated about the 80s music " thread .... but then I figured why bother, there is too much good music out there to focus on the past.

I would suggest that if you think you could stomach Blackie's vocals (which I love, but I also love Hansi) that you're doing them a real disservice by judging them on their 80s image. You can certainly dismiss the first 3 albums, Helldorado and probably K.F.D. but the rest range from good to amazing. If you're willing to take a chance, perhaps the best jumping off point for you is the recently expanded re-recording of The Crimson Idol (called Reidolized). The production is an improvement over the original, Blackie still sounds great and he adjusted some of the lyrics that he now finds objectionable. As far as concept albums go its one of the all time greats, up there with Mindcrime and Into the Electric Castle in my book.

[introclaus]

I only have the first (S/T) album...

***That's one more than I have .........

Yeah but you don’t like metal, so ...

[introclaus]

If you're willing to take a chance, perhaps the best jumping off point for you is the recently expanded re-recording of The Crimson Idol (called Reidolized). The production is an improvement over the original, Blackie still sounds great and he adjusted some of the lyrics that he now finds objectionable. As far as concept albums go its one of the all time greats, up there with Mindcrime and Into the Electric Castle in my book.

Agreed- superb re-recording of one of the best concept discs in metal ever.

[introclaus]

I've always wanted to start a " what I hated about the 80s music " thread .... but then I figured why bother, there is too much good music out there to focus on the past.

Man, that is soooooo sad. WASP, Twisted S, Lizzy Borden, armored Saint, Icon, Malice, Helstar, Omen, Jag P, etc - US METAL in the 80’s were the best dude!!!

[GaetanL]

there is too much good music out there to focus on the past.

I totally disagree. At this point in time, I think good music is more behind us than ahead of us.

I actually don't care when an album was released. If it's good music, it's good music. Just an example: In 2014, I discovered Judas Priest - "Stained Class" released in 1978! This is on my list of my favorites albums of all time!

It also depends of what you missed in the past. This could be much better than current releases in general.

That being said, I still have a look on current releases, but I don't forget the past...

[LarryD]

I've always wanted to start a " what I hated about the 80s music " thread .... but then I figured why bother, there is too much good music out there to focus on the past.

Man, that is soooooo sad. WASP, Twisted S, Lizzy Borden, armored Saint, Icon, Malice, Helstar, Omen, Jag P, etc - US METAL in the 80’s were the best dude!!!

****Just for the record ---

WASP - nuff said on that already.
Twisted Sister - a joke.
Lizzy Borden - bottom tier of bands trying to do something.
Armored Saint - one of the better "metal" bands of the 80s.
Icon - never got into them.
Malice - great Priest rip off, they had one really good album.
Helstar - had about 3 of their albums on vinyl, never listened to them. I tried like hell.
Omen - never heard a note.
Jag P- good metal band; they changed my mind when I saw them at Prog Power; they kicked ass.

I was doing Priest, Maiden, Riot, Leppard, Extreme, King Diamond, Fifth Angel, Mercyful Fate, etc ...... not to mention Fates, Queensryche, Crimson Glory, etc .....

[Nos]

there is too much good music out there to focus on the past.

I totally disagree. At this point in time, I think good music is more behind us than ahead of us.

That would be extremely depressing if true. Fortunately, I don't think it is. The styles might have changed over the years, but there's always new stuff coming out that stands out and does something amazing.

The new music I listen to now is different than my favorite stuff from my youth, but that's ok. I would probably be less impressed if things hadn't changed.

[introclaus]

WASP - nuff said on that already.
Twisted Sister - a joke.
Lizzy Borden - bottom tier of bands trying to do something.
Armored Saint - one of the better "metal" bands of the 80s.
Icon - never got into them.
Malice - great Priest rip off, they had one really good album.
Helstar - had about 3 of their albums on vinyl, never listened to them. I tried like hell.
Omen - never heard a note.
Jag P- good metal band; they changed my mind when I saw them at Prog Power; they kicked ass.

That statement is, no joke, the saddest thing I’ve ever read on this forum. I hold you in high respect Larry, you know that, but that stuff is absolute insanity.

I was doing Priest, Maiden, Riot, Leppard, Extreme, King Diamond, Fifth Angel, Mercyful Fate, etc ...... not to mention Fates, Queensryche, Crimson Glory, etc .....

All great bands, but not any different than the ones above - in fact, several of these were less “metal” than the ones I pointed out. Also, you complain about “shock rock” but have KD, MF and CG on there

[LarryD]

WASP - nuff said on that already.
Twisted Sister - a joke.
Lizzy Borden - bottom tier of bands trying to do something.
Armored Saint - one of the better "metal" bands of the 80s.
Icon - never got into them.
Malice - great Priest rip off, they had one really good album.
Helstar - had about 3 of their albums on vinyl, never listened to them. I tried like hell.
Omen - never heard a note.
Jag P- good metal band; they changed my mind when I saw them at Prog Power; they kicked ass.

That statement is, no joke, the saddest thing I’ve ever read on this forum. I hold you in high respect Larry, you know that, but that stuff is absolute insanity.

***Well I'm sure you are taking this to the extreme ..... there have been many, many "strange" things here on this board thru the years..... but we do need to agree to disagree, because putting Twisted Sister on a "great bands of the 80s" list is pure insanity to me. So I liked Armored Saint, Malice, and Jag out of that list above, and the rest is insanity because I didn't like Lizzy Borden or never heard a note of Omen ?

I was doing Priest, Maiden, Riot, Leppard, Extreme, King Diamond, Fifth Angel, Mercyful Fate, etc ...... not to mention Fates, Queensryche, Crimson Glory, etc .....

All great bands, but not any different than the ones above - in fact, several of these were less “metal” than the ones I pointed out. Also, you complain about “shock rock” but have KD, MF and CG on there

****So basically what I'm trying to show you here, is what metal I listened to in the 80's versus what I didn't like or didn't hear. Let's face it though - you're saying great bands but not different than the ones you listed ? Priest, Maiden, Queensryche, King, versus Twisted Sister, Malice, or Omen ? If you're putting those bands in the same category as to what I was listening to, I could provide the same insanity argument.

I don't consider Crimson Glory shock rock ...... but we can discuss that in another thread. Lets not cut hairs...... I liked 80s metal, just not some of the ones you listed here, and that's if we care to discuss calling Twisted Sister metal.

Let's get back to some good present day music ....... and in your honor, yesterday I played Dokken / Back for the Attack. Such an awesome disc, and George is at his best here I'd say .......

[introclaus]

WASP - nuff said on that already.
Twisted Sister - a joke.
Lizzy Borden - bottom tier of bands trying to do something.
Armored Saint - one of the better "metal" bands of the 80s.
Icon - never got into them.
Malice - great Priest rip off, they had one really good album.
Helstar - had about 3 of their albums on vinyl, never listened to them. I tried like hell.
Omen - never heard a note.
Jag P- good metal band; they changed my mind when I saw them at Prog Power; they kicked ass.

That statement is, no joke, the saddest thing I’ve ever read on this forum. I hold you in high respect Larry, you know that, but that stuff is absolute insanity.

***Well I'm sure you are taking this to the extreme ..... there have been many, many "strange" things here on this board thru the years..... but we do need to agree to disagree, because putting Twisted Sister on a "great bands of the 80s" list is pure insanity to me. So I liked Armored Saint, Malice, and Jag out of that list above, and the rest is insanity because I didn't like Lizzy Borden or never heard a note of Omen ?

I was doing Priest, Maiden, Riot, Leppard, Extreme, King Diamond, Fifth Angel, Mercyful Fate, etc ...... not to mention Fates, Queensryche, Crimson Glory, etc .....

All great bands, but not any different than the ones above - in fact, several of these were less “metal” than the ones I pointed out. Also, you complain about “shock rock” but have KD, MF and CG on there

****So basically what I'm trying to show you here, is what metal I listened to in the 80's versus what I didn't like or didn't hear. Let's face it though - you're saying great bands but not different than the ones you listed ? Priest, Maiden, Queensryche, King, versus Twisted Sister, Malice, or Omen ? If you're putting those bands in the same category as to what I was listening to, I could provide the same insanity argument.

I don't consider Crimson Glory shock rock ...... but we can discuss that in another thread. Lets not cut hairs...... I liked 80s metal, just not some of the ones you listed here, and that's if we care to discuss calling Twisted Sister metal.

Let's get back to some good present day music ....... and in your honor, yesterday I played Dokken / Back for the Attack. Such an awesome disc, and George is at his best here I'd say .......

Twisted Sister were more metal than several of those you listen(Ed) to. You just only know the pop hits. Classic TS was absolutely amazing HEAVY metal!

[Hearing Aid Man]

****Just for the record ---
Twisted Sister - a joke.
Lizzy Borden - bottom tier of bands trying to do something.
Icon - never got into them.
Omen - never heard a note.

You shocked with your top cd of 2020. Now your surprising me the opposite way with these comments.

Twisted Sister was far from a joke besides a couple of very overplayed songs. Feel like they had 3-4 very good albums.

Lizzy Borden was hardly bottom tier. Singer was hit or miss with some, but musically they were great and their songs were well written and catchy as hell.

Icon - don't know anyone that didn't like either the first (heavier) or second (more commercial) release. I think both are great.

Omen - another great band. Lyrics would be the only possible thing from someone listening to these guys now. Back in the days no one cared what the words said. The Axeman is a classic.

[GaetanL]

Honestly, based on my memory of Larry's dislike of Hansi's vocals it doesn't surprise me that he wouldn't like even good (THC and beyond) W.A.S.P. as I would consider Hansi the singer closest in sound to Blackie.

****Exactly right - although it goes a lot deeper than that ........ I never cared for the California hair metal bands of the 80s ..... in fact, I despised a lot of them. WASP was a band that I wouldn't even consider back then due to the antics they were pulling back in the day. I was never into shock rock to begin with ...... (other than Alice Cooper in the 70s if you consider that shock rock). I have a long list of bands that I could never stomach back in the day - WASP is on that list. I've always wanted to start a " what I hated about the 80s music " thread .... but then I figured why bother, there is too much good music out there to focus on the past.

I would suggest that if you think you could stomach Blackie's vocals (which I love, but I also love Hansi) that you're doing them a real disservice by judging them on their 80s image. You can certainly dismiss the first 3 albums, Helldorado and probably K.F.D. but the rest range from good to amazing. If you're willing to take a chance, perhaps the best jumping off point for you is the recently expanded re-recording of The Crimson Idol (called Reidolized). The production is an improvement over the original, Blackie still sounds great and he adjusted some of the lyrics that he now finds objectionable. As far as concept albums go its one of the all time greats, up there with Mindcrime and Into the Electric Castle in my book.

I would suggest exactly the same thing for Larry! This re-recording of The Crimson Idol (called Reidolized) is great! Although, I pretty sure this won't happen. Larry is too much focusing on the past!

[LarryD]

I was never a WASP fan ....... I didn't care for the band concept and Blackie's vocals felt like I was a getting a massage with sandpaper.