Thoughts Factory- Elements

[Harvester]

In the old days, this forum would have dissected it and wrote several reviews on it by now. I would gladly introduce/post more on new prog gems on this forum, but the usual *crickets* really make me sad. Altesia is a prime example of a disc that should be killing it around here.

Alas, I digress....

New disc came out last week. It's melodic, warm/fuzzy, and crunchy prog metal from Germany. Think Tomorrow's Eve with a bit of Circus Maximus thrown in the blender. It's the kind of shit this forum was built on and that Larry will clutch to his chest on his way to the grave. It's honestly a step up in all areas from the debut.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYwngOlf9B0


G.

P.S. You prog bastards need Altesia in your life.

[Hearing Aid Man]

chirp chirp

[LarryD]

Yep -- you hit on the head bro ...... prog metal that I live for ......... definitely hear the CM and T-Eve in this music ......... that song was bad ass, and this one is even badder.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYwngOlf9B0

Great way to start off the new year with traditional prog metal !!!!! Thanks for the heads up .........

[Sir Exar Kun]

Is this like some weird test to see if anyone catches the fact that you both posted links to the same song?

Enjoying the music, but the vocals are rubbing me the wrong way for some reason..... Can't really put a finger on it. Will try something else from the new album, but not yet out the proverbial door for this.....

[Harvester]

Is this like some weird test to see if anyone catches the fact that you both posted links to the same song?

Enjoying the music, but the vocals are rubbing me the wrong way for some reason..... Can't really put a finger on it. Will try something else from the new album, but not yet out the proverbial door for this.....

Not a fan of the old Michael Eriksen tone/approach? His performance on "Dawn" Part 1 & 2 are eerily reminiscent of "Glory of the Empire."

[LarryD]

Is this like some weird test to see if anyone catches the fact that you both posted links to the same song?

Enjoying the music, but the vocals are rubbing me the wrong way for some reason..... Can't really put a finger on it. Will try something else from the new album, but not yet out the proverbial door for this.....

****That's weird - I specifically chose another song to post, not the same one ...... I viewed 3 songs, and a live clip ...... Glenn is telling me that 2 of those clips are from older discs, the one he posted is the new one ..... so weird, the cover art looked the same for the songs......and I know my song was different than Glenn's ........I thought the same thing you about the vocals on the live clip, yet on the song I picked he was very good and had a higher pitch tone .... that might explain the different discs, the music may be driving him to sing higher on the new stuff ........

[Sir Exar Kun]

OK, you got me...... I hopped over to Bandcamp and tried hopping around a bit more (including the "Dawn Part 1" track), and NOW I'm warmed up...... Definitely hearing the "Glory of the Empire" reference too. Looking forward to hearing the full thing now.

[LASERCD]

<cough> https://www.lasercd.com/cd/elements-0 </cough>

[LarryD]

My first thoughts upon hearing this is WOW !!!! With an emphasis on the guitarist ........ Glenn hit it on the head with the Circus Maximus vibe, I submit that if CM wrote this thing, it would bring them back into our hearts and CD racks. This is traditional prog metal with a production quality that I haven't heard in a long time - definitely hearing Glory to the Empire vibe around the disc. Even though this is traditional, it has a fresh feeling, maybe because we haven't heard this type of quality in some time, except for maybe bands like Darkwater and Tomorrow's Eve who are carrying on that tradition.

Thoughts Factory continues to fly the flag for that dying style, and they do it with magnificence. I predict that there will be some rumblings about the singer, and I will agree with most, but he does fit the music and when he stays in his range he fits the music perfectly. He can hit the high notes, but there is a certain grate about that range to my ears, but for the most part he stays within his range and sounds great. Definitely grabbing this from The Lasers Edge !!!!!

[Mardoch]

Just getting to the single on YT, this is the good stuff of the classic form. Absolutely gonna pick this up.

[Guillaume]

I like this. Thanks for the tip!

[LarryD]

What a great prog metal disc ..... the more I play it, the more I love it ....... there are some songs that actually give me goosebumps. The singer might be the weak link for some, but that's really personal taste as he is fine. Michael Erikson fronting this band would make it surreal, but the guy doing the job is more than adequate. As prog metal heads, we are looking to make something better, and this is no exception. For what this is, it fills the void that Circus Maximus left behind ...... this guitarist is amazing.

[introclaus]

It’s a good album, but it’s not “fantastic” in any way.

Musically we’ve heard it all before (which isn’t a bad thing per se, it just is a very paint-by-numbers album).

Vocally however it’s just not there at all - it’s like REDEMPTION before Ray, SEVENTH WONDER before Tommy, SYM X before Russell ... it’s good but missing a very important piece, a singer that can lift them up above this “okay” level to something extraordinary.

That said, I bought the album and it’ll definitely get a lot of spins as I like this kind of music - I however don’t kneel down and pray at the altar of everything that sounds like old school melo-prog-metal like Larry does

[Sir Exar Kun]

If this album came out in 2001 or so, I might not appreciate this as much as I do now..... Sure, it's cookie cutter prog metal, and back then cookies were a bit more dime a dozen. Nowadays, we don't find many new bands that sound like this, so I think I enjoy it more than I would otherwise. The singer is.... fine? Sure, he could be a bit stronger in the high end, but he certainly isn't holding this back any.

For anyone who enjoyed MI God last year, this scratches the exact same itch.

[LarryD]

If this album came out in 2001 or so, I might not appreciate this as much as I do now..... Sure, it's cookie cutter prog metal, and back then cookies were a bit more dime a dozen. Nowadays, we don't find many new bands that sound like this, so I think I enjoy it more than I would otherwise. The singer is.... fine? Sure, he could be a bit stronger in the high end, but he certainly isn't holding this back any.

For anyone who enjoyed MI God last year, this scratches the exact same itch.

****Bingo !!!!! Give that man a ceegar !!!!! Agree on the singer, but this is great music. It sounds like this type of metal stopped at a certain point, and then bands like this and Darkwater just picked it up again and kept it going ..... I love it !!!!!

[Man Of Much Metal]

Big fan of this release - it isn't particularly original but it is quality and memorable, two things I want in my music!

https://manofmuchmetal.com/2020/01/08/t ... um-review/

Cheers,

Matt

[LarryD]

Big fan of this release - it isn't particularly original but it is quality and memorable, two things I want in my music!

***And that's exactly why I like releases like this ..... it does NOT have to be original. Originality can only go so far in prog metal ......there are reference bands, and then bands trying to do something outside of those bands ..... the tree isn't that big, so I don't have any problem with non-originality. My collection would be tiny if I subscribed to that concept. That said - this disc is quality and memorable, as you said, and that's what I want from music like this ...... if it sounds like Circus Maximus, Seventh Wonder, etc etc .... even better. Well said Matt.

[introclaus]

Originality can only go so far in prog metal ...

Prog Metal

[LarryD]

Originality can only go so far in prog metal ...

Prog Metal

****You're killing me ....... slowly but surely ........ did Ken put you up to this ?

[introclaus]

Nope!

Seriously bro, if prog metal isn’t all about originality then I don’t know what is .. the entire “prog metal is a genre of bands sounding like derivative Dream Theater clones” is a huge misunderstanding and a very wrong assumption. “Prog” is about ever-changing and trying out new things. Look at bands like Tool, Tesseract, Mars Volta, Leprous, Port Noir, and hundreds of other bands (some I like, some I don’t) constantly bringing something new to the genre. Yes, at some point they too “stale out” and there’s a ton of bands trying to sound like them, but then a new band is ready to take over and push the genre into a new direction - that’s progression and that’s progressive (metal).

[LarryD]

Nope!

Seriously bro, if prog metal isn’t all about originality then I don’t know what is .. the entire “prog metal is a genre of bands sounding like derivative Dream Theater clones” is a huge misunderstanding and a very wrong assumption. “Prog” is about ever-changing and trying out new things. Look at bands like Tool, Tesseract, Mars Volta, Leprous, Port Noir, and hundreds of other bands (some I like, some I don’t) constantly bringing something new to the genre. Yes, at some point they too “stale out” and there’s a ton of bands trying to sound like them, but then a new band is ready to take over and push the genre into a new direction - that’s progression and that’s progressive (metal).

****I hear you .... but at the risk of seeing that picture above come up again, I don't like any of those bands that you mention above .....regardless of their "progressive" nature, I enjoy "traditional" prog metal if you will ....... melodic, progressive. I don't need a band to push the genre in a new direction - I can like some of them, but I wouldn't subscribe to a whole bunch of new bands that sound like XXXXX.

Just a question for you - if 10 bands came along, and they all sounded like Leprous, and they were quality - meaning that you would buy their music and listen to it repeatedly, would you do it, or just say I'd rather listen to Leprous than all of those other 10 bands...... just curious.

[Man Of Much Metal]

This is turning into a very interesting thread. It's difficult to comment though too much, because I can see (and subscribe to) both sides of the argument. At the end of the day, if the band is original and quality, I will enjoy it. And if the band is unoriginal but quality, I will enjoy it. Music is ultimately about enjoyment, so if a 'clone' sounds uninspired or if an 'original' band takes things in a direction I dislike, I won't listen to either. Good music is good music

[introclaus]

Nope!

Seriously bro, if prog metal isn’t all about originality then I don’t know what is .. the entire “prog metal is a genre of bands sounding like derivative Dream Theater clones” is a huge misunderstanding and a very wrong assumption. “Prog” is about ever-changing and trying out new things. Look at bands like Tool, Tesseract, Mars Volta, Leprous, Port Noir, and hundreds of other bands (some I like, some I don’t) constantly bringing something new to the genre. Yes, at some point they too “stale out” and there’s a ton of bands trying to sound like them, but then a new band is ready to take over and push the genre into a new direction - that’s progression and that’s progressive (metal).

****I hear you .... but at the risk of seeing that picture above come up again, I don't like any of those bands that you mention above .....regardless of their "progressive" nature, I enjoy "traditional" prog metal if you will ....... melodic, progressive. I don't need a band to push the genre in a new direction - I can like some of them, but I wouldn't subscribe to a whole bunch of new bands that sound like XXXXX.

Just a question for you - if 10 bands came along, and they all sounded like Leprous, and they were quality - meaning that you would buy their music and listen to it repeatedly, would you do it, or just say I'd rather listen to Leprous than all of those other 10 bands...... just curious.

I have no problem buying 10 (or a hundred for that matter) albums that sound alike as long as I enjoy it. That’s not the problem I’m calling out. Even I (as big a fan as I am of Port Noir or Leprous, just to use them as an example) realize that there’s a huge risk that they too will end up going stale and stop evolving. When that happens I hope the next band in line is there to take the genre further into a new direction. Will I stop buying albums from those bands or bands that sound like them? No! I like what I like and just like you enjoy bands that sound like old school Dream Theater (Tomorrow’s Eve, Vanddn Plas...) and continue to buy those, so do I. You’ve seen bands like Tool or The Mars Volta come along and push the progressive metal genre. I don’t like either band but I can see them bringing something to the genre and that’s the progression and forward moving and forward thinking mindset. To me that’s progressive metal, just like Dream Theater were when they came out. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with your approach Larry, I just have to give you a hard time about the distinction between “progressive metal” (the genre of bands al sounding like Dream Theater/Vanden Plas/Fates Warning/Seventh Wonder...) and “progressive metal” (the genre of ever evolving and challenging music).

[LarryD]

To me that’s progressive metal, just like Dream Theater were when they came out. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with your approach Larry, I just have to give you a hard time about the distinction between “progressive metal” (the genre of bands al sounding like Dream Theater/Vanden Plas/Fates Warning/Seventh Wonder...) and “progressive metal” (the genre of ever evolving and challenging music).

"
*** I always fear when a thread is about to become a " what is prog metal and what isn't " thread ..... I told Sir Exar I would never do that .......
However, and for the record, Progressive Metal ( to me ) will always be the style of the music a band plays, not the attitude or originality they might bring to the table....it's a genre, not a direction. Yeah here I go trying to define PI again- and I don't mean to - it's just my personal feeling on the word ......

Now if you could take that picture of Weird Al, with the " you don't know what prog is " GIF - and put my picture in there, now THATS progressive ........

[introclaus]

To me that’s progressive metal, just like Dream Theater were when they came out. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with your approach Larry, I just have to give you a hard time about the distinction between “progressive metal” (the genre of bands al sounding like Dream Theater/Vanden Plas/Fates Warning/Seventh Wonder...) and “progressive metal” (the genre of ever evolving and challenging music).

"
*** I always fear when a thread is about to become a " what is prog metal and what isn't " thread ..... I told Sir Exar I would never do that .......
However, and for the record, Progressive Metal ( to me ) will always be the style of the music a band plays, not the attitude or originality they might bring to the table....it's a genre, not a direction. Yeah here I go trying to define PI again- and I don't mean to - it's just my personal feeling on the word ......

Now if you could take that picture of Weird Al, with the " you don't know what prog is " GIF - and put my picture in there, now THATS progressive ........

Oh boy ... Weird Al ... I’m at a loss for words ...

[LarryD]

Oh boy ... Weird Al ... I’m at a loss for words ...

***Put glasses on him - that's Weird Al !!!!!

[Sir Exar Kun]

Dammit, I don't check the board all weekend and here we go with THIS argument all over again.

I quit. I'm sticking to the Winger thread!!!!

[LarryD]

Dammit, I don't check the board all weekend and here we go with THIS argument all over again.

I quit. I'm sticking to the Winger thread!!!!

****I told you I wouldn't do it in your honor, and I didn't ....... give me credit. Claus started it. Get on him for that ....... Onto the Winger thread - Stevie has been trying for years to get me into the later Winger stuff ....... I just can't. Winger did some sort of New Agey thing didn't he ? I forget the name of the disc, Stevie also tried to get me into that - but I held fast.

Now that said - I did hate the hair band Winger stuff, and I know this is not that, but is it that far off from the MTV chronicles ?

[Tom C]

I just have to give you a hard time about the distinction between “progressive metal” (the genre of bands al sounding like Dream Theater/Vanden Plas/Fates Warning/Seventh Wonder...) and “progressive metal” (the genre of ever evolving and challenging music).

[This is a fun, nostalgic trip down memory lane, LOL]

A Genre is literally defined as: a category of artistic composition, as in music or literature, characterized by similarities in form, style, or subject matter.

A genre's purpose is to lump like things together, therefore a genre cannot describe an ever changing set of parameters. You simply cannot create a genre to define an undefinable sound or style because the whole thing then becomes a paradox.

Genres define style and substance not concepts.

Whatever that new, completely unique, mind bending way of pushing the boundaries is, unless it does so with the recognizable stylistic tendencies of progressive metal, it has to get a new label.

Dream Theater releasing the same album for 20 years may not be literally "progressive" nor or they pushing boundaries anymore, but this has zero to do with how they are defined musically.