Queensryche / Rage for Order re-master........

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Queensryche / Rage for Order re-master........

Postby LarryD » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:51 am

Ok, I know most of the people around me are tired of hearing about this particular re-master...... it's old news, and either you have it or you don't. Some of you may have it and never played it ....... weird, but I've heard of it happening.

Now - while we wait for some great music to come our way (it's been dry this year admit it), I'm in full on RUSH and Queensryche mode....... don't ask me why, I can only suggest some things but it doesn't matter ........ I've been playing the hell out of this QR re-master for the past month or two non-stop. Of all the QR masters, this is without a doubt the best one of the bunch. I have heard more nuances, keyboard patches, voice harmonies, clearer guitar picking, etc etc ...... it's just wonderful mix of everything that needed to be done to this disc, and it was done superbly.........

Back in the day, I could only imagine how hard it was for Wilton and DeGarmo to pull this stuff off, and it blew my mind how talented they really are ..... so I started scouring the Internet for guitar covers of their music, and I found this one of "Eyes of a Stranger" ........ the thing about this video is, the guy who does it, Alex Ward, gives a split screen of what Wilton and DeGarmo would have done at the same time instead of playing just one part...... secondly, for you guitar heroes and wannabes, he uses a Fender Telecaster for the soft melodic passages, and a Les Paul for the heavier parts .......pretty good stuff there........

What amazed me the most is how difficult it really is to play "Eyes of a Stranger" on guitar......... if you have never really scrutinized this, check out this video -- it blew me away as to how hard it really is .... I tried to bend my fingers like Ward does playing an air guitar and I couldn't do it ........ if you thought it was easy, or didn't know, or didn't care, check out this video -- it excited the shit out of me that not only could this dude pull it off so easy, but how hard it really is .........enjoy !!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXONdbvxIl4

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Re: Queensryche / Rage for Order re-master........

Postby T'ski » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:48 pm

I know Alex through old QR message boards, he is a big DeGarmo fan.

I dropped him a note, maybe he'll chime in on the topic.

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Re: Queensryche / Rage for Order re-master........

Postby LarryD » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:17 pm

T'ski wrote:I know Alex through old QR message boards, he is a big DeGarmo fan.

I dropped him a note, maybe he'll chime in on the topic.



***That would be awesome ..... thanks bro ...........

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Re: Queensryche / Rage for Order re-master........

Postby Sparky » Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:01 pm

That's a Telecaster, you goof. :P
I'll be the judge of what's good and what isn't, thank you... ;)

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Re: Queensryche / Rage for Order re-master........

Postby LarryD » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:36 pm

Sparky wrote:That's a Telecaster, you goof. :P



***Thats what I said !!!!!! Hey, I had rum --- give me a break ................. :wink:

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Re: Queensryche / Rage for Order re-master........

Postby Chris R » Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:23 am

One of my old bands used to do this song

yes..its really difficult to play
and to me Rage for Order was their pinnacle..one of the alltime best albums ever recorded
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Re: Queensryche / Rage for Order re-master........

Postby gazinwales » Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:28 pm

I never get tired of RFO.
Back in the day it sounding amazing and very futuristic and it still does today.
I remember seeing the record sleeve at Soundgarden Records here in Sydney, saw the back cover and didn't know what to think.
As pulverising as the art was/is, the music inside was something special, almost like they were from another planet.
Just how they came up with some of those arrangements and how they pulled it off live I'll never know.

While Mindcrime and Empire seem to always be picked as the QR pinacle, for me RFO will always be their best and one of the best 'prog metal' albums ever.

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Re: Queensryche / Rage for Order re-master........

Postby LarryD » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:50 pm

gazinwales wrote:I never get tired of RFO.
Back in the day it sounding amazing and very futuristic and it still does today.
I remember seeing the record sleeve at Soundgarden Records here in Sydney, saw the back cover and didn't know what to think.
As pulverising as the art was/is, the music inside was something special, almost like they were from another planet.
Just how they came up with some of those arrangements and how they pulled it off live I'll never know.

While Mindcrime and Empire seem to always be picked as the QR pinacle, for me RFO will always be their best and one of the best 'prog metal' albums ever.


***Absolutely agree with that last sentence 110%....... One of the best Prog metal discs ever.......I'm using my phone right now but I have thoughts on the first part of that post....... I'll type of from home........

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Re: Queensryche / Rage for Order re-master........

Postby LarryD » Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:10 pm

gazinwales wrote:I never get tired of RFO.
Back in the day it sounding amazing and very futuristic and it still does today.
I remember seeing the record sleeve at Soundgarden Records here in Sydney, saw the back cover and didn't know what to think.
As pulverising as the art was/is, the music inside was something special, almost like they were from another planet.
Just how they came up with some of those arrangements and how they pulled it off live I'll never know.

While Mindcrime and Empire seem to always be picked as the QR pinacle, for me RFO will always be their best and one of the best 'prog metal' albums ever.



*** When RFO came out, I was like you ad everyone in the "look" dept, and wondered what the hell was going on ....... once i heard the music, I didn't care. This was absolute first rate prog metal at it's best. Sadly, it didn't do much for the band financially, they toured on the album, with Ozzy, and they got much more recognition......

The reason people put more credence into Mindcrime and Empire was because of the commercial success........ and even Mindcrime was not successful. Once they got on MTV, and people saw the videos for Mindcrime, it took off ....... but at the time, the band was ready to write another album (Empire) because they had just toured with RFO and Mindcrime didn't do much for them either (even though they toured Metallica). Just before they wrote Empire, Mindcrime took off because of MTV and the rest is history. People who started with QR at the Mindcrime era would put it as their favorite ......but we die hard QR fans knew that The Warning was a monster of a prog metal disc, and RFO came along and blew us all away.

Empire was indeed their financial pinnacle - and I imagine that people who started here, found it almost difficult to go back to RFO and worship it the way we do......that's my theory anyway .........

We elders have an advantage over these people .............. :wink:

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Re: Queensryche / Rage for Order re-master........

Postby elendil » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:21 am

RFO was a grower for me back in the day. At one time my fave QR release was their debut EP, followed by Mindcrime and then at some distance by Empire. I even traded it away. Maybe 15 years ago I got back into it. All-time classic for sure, though I'd still put Mindcrime above it.

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Re: Queensryche / Rage for Order re-master........

Postby Sir Exar Kun » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:34 am

Empire was indeed their financial pinnacle - and I imagine that people who started here, found it almost difficult to go back to RFO and worship it the way we do......that's my theory anyway .........


I didn't get into QR until Empire, just based on when I was getting into metal at all. I remember them from Op:MC prior to being exposed to Empire, but somehow the songs on MTV from Op:MC didn't hit me right away. (In hindsight, I still don't know how that is possible with "Eyes of a Stranger", but I digress.) I worked my way backwards through the catalogue from Empire, and remember clearly hearing Rage for the first time thinking simply..... WTF IS THIS?!? It was an eye opener, as even five years after its release you could hear how vastly far ahead of its time it was. Sadly, after hearing RfO, The Warning and the EP had a very hard time measuring up.

To this day, Rage is my favorite QR album, so trust me.... You can absolutely appreciate the brilliance of it even working backwards. In all seriousness, Rage is a desert island disc.... Top 5, whatever, this album makes the cut. It's been what (31?) years since it's release, and even now it stands uniquely apart from anything that has come since. A couple of bands have mimicked it (Mystic Force, Malison Rogue) but nothing else has captured the unique sound and style of Rage. There is not one even remotely subpar track on it. Take your pick.... Killing Words, Screaming in Digital, London..... Sure, Surgical Strike is a little on the odd side, but even that only pales in comparison to the songs that surround it.
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Re: Queensryche / Rage for Order re-master........

Postby Stevie WOnder » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:34 am

Sir Exar Kun wrote:
Empire was indeed their financial pinnacle - and I imagine that people who started here, found it almost difficult to go back to RFO and worship it the way we do......that's my theory anyway .........


I didn't get into QR until Empire, just based on when I was getting into metal at all. I remember them from Op:MC prior to being exposed to Empire, but somehow the songs on MTV from Op:MC didn't hit me right away. (In hindsight, I still don't know how that is possible with "Eyes of a Stranger", but I digress.) I worked my way backwards through the catalogue from Empire, and remember clearly hearing Rage for the first time thinking simply..... WTF IS THIS?!? It was an eye opener, as even five years after its release you could hear how vastly far ahead of its time it was. Sadly, after hearing RfO, The Warning and the EP had a very hard time measuring up.

To this day, Rage is my favorite QR album, so trust me.... You can absolutely appreciate the brilliance of it even working backwards. In all seriousness, Rage is a desert island disc.... Top 5, whatever, this album makes the cut. It's been what (31?) years since it's release, and even now it stands uniquely apart from anything that has come since. A couple of bands have mimicked it (Mystic Force, Malison Rogue) but nothing else has captured the unique sound and style of Rage. There is not one even remotely subpar track on it. Take your pick.... Killing Words, Screaming in Digital, London..... Sure, Surgical Strike is a little on the odd side, but even that only pales in comparison to the songs that surround it.


The Warning has probably their best song ever with Roads to Madness. Maybe Suite Sister Mary is a better song but I put them on the same level. RtM is such a brilliant song. The way Tate was singing that on the Empire tour was magical...
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Re: Queensryche / Rage for Order re-master........

Postby Chris R » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:45 am

LarryD wrote:
gazinwales wrote:I never get tired of RFO.
Back in the day it sounding amazing and very futuristic and it still does today.
I remember seeing the record sleeve at Soundgarden Records here in Sydney, saw the back cover and didn't know what to think.
As pulverising as the art was/is, the music inside was something special, almost like they were from another planet.
Just how they came up with some of those arrangements and how they pulled it off live I'll never know.

While Mindcrime and Empire seem to always be picked as the QR pinacle, for me RFO will always be their best and one of the best 'prog metal' albums ever.



*** When RFO came out, I was like you ad everyone in the "look" dept, and wondered what the hell was going on ....... once i heard the music, I didn't care. This was absolute first rate prog metal at it's best. Sadly, it didn't do much for the band financially, they toured on the album, with Ozzy, and they got much more recognition......

The reason people put more credence into Mindcrime and Empire was because of the commercial success........ and even Mindcrime was not successful. Once they got on MTV, and people saw the videos for Mindcrime, it took off ....... but at the time, the band was ready to write another album (Empire) because they had just toured with RFO and Mindcrime didn't do much for them either (even though they toured Metallica). Just before they wrote Empire, Mindcrime took off because of MTV and the rest is history. People who started with QR at the Mindcrime era would put it as their favorite ......but we die hard QR fans knew that The Warning was a monster of a prog metal disc, and RFO came along and blew us all away.

Empire was indeed their financial pinnacle - and I imagine that people who started here, found it almost difficult to go back to RFO and worship it the way we do......that's my theory anyway .........

We elders have an advantage over these people .............. :wink:

Nail meet head....
I get all sorts of weird looks when I say Mindcrime was a bit of a letdown musicly to RFO....
The experimental /electronic uniqueness was gone..
Empire was kinda a big let down as well...oddly enough Silent Lucidity was my favorite track as they went back into their pink Floyd worship that got them noticed by me on the Warning..

And I will say to me...if Promised Land came out right after RFO....that to me would have been their next step....as they went back to experimenting..weird shit....and indulging
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Re: Queensryche / Rage for Order re-master........

Postby LarryD » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:24 pm

There is not one even remotely subpar track on it. Take your pick.... Killing Words, Screaming in Digital, London..... Sure, Surgical Strike is a little on the odd side, but even that only pales in comparison to the songs that surround it.


***Gonna Get Close To You is way out of place to me ......always was. It killed the momentum of the "sci-fi" songs and feel of the disc...... I'm not sure why they opted to do this song instead of writing another killer song, but this song is the only song to me that is out of place .........every other song flows perfectly, and Neue Regale gets me every time ........that opening riff, and the ending vocal riff is absolutely monstrous ..........

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Re: Queensryche / Rage for Order re-master........

Postby Sir Exar Kun » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:03 pm

***Gonna Get Close To You is way out of place to me ......always was. It killed the momentum of the "sci-fi" songs and feel of the disc...... I'm not sure why they opted to do this song instead of writing another killer song, but this song is the only song to me that is out of place .........every other song flows perfectly, and Neue Regale gets me every time ........that opening riff, and the ending vocal riff is absolutely monstrous ..........


Gonna have to disagree here.... I love that song. As odd and quirky as it is, it somehow fits in perfectly with that album. I love the way Geoff sings the pre-chorus on it, then the big kick in towards the end of the song....
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Re: Queensryche / Rage for Order re-master........

Postby Chris R » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:07 pm

It fits perfectly...
In fact not only did I not know it was a cover for a few years,but that was the instant standout track that hit me first...
Totally weird ,quirky and futuristicly melodic
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Re: Queensryche / Rage for Order re-master........

Postby GaetanL » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:50 am

Sir Exar Kun wrote:it somehow fits in perfectly with that album.

+1
Chris R wrote:It fits perfectly...

+1

Long time ago I posted about this song, "Gonna Get Close To You", saying also that this cover fits perfectly on this album.

Nobody responded if I remember right.

Not so long ago there has been a discussion about this song on PM X^2 board.
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Re: Queensryche / Rage for Order re-master........

Postby LarryD » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:39 am

It's a double whammy for me ...... not only do I not like the song and think that it was way out of place on an other wise perfect disc, my bigger gripe was that it was a cover song in the first place .......

To my ears - when I hear this song, I cringe. It just took away from a disc that would have been completely perfect to me ...... I've been on a re-master kick (again) recently and I pulled out the QR and Rush re-masters. As those close to me know, when I get in a certain mood, these bands come out. It's that time..... even my wife said recently, "uh-oh, what's wrong ? You've been playing QR non-stop lately, that's a sign"...... and then she said, "if you're going to play that Rage for Order disc over and over all day, could you please throw in some Operation:Mindcrime once in awhile to break it up - I love QR, but Geoff sounds weird on this disc" ..... I had to laugh my ass off on that comment, but then she explained that on the opening notes to Neue Regale, Geoff sounds like he is holding his nose while singing and that bothers her........I explained to her that it's a filter of some sort that processes the vocals to make it sound like that, and she asked why would he want that ? LOL ....... Then I went on to explain about my initial aversion to that style of vocal processing that I couldn't stand (Kamelot for example) .......and then as I was explaining, I realized that even QR had done this way back in 1986 and even earlier with The Warning if I remember....... but I didn't have a problem with it back then, so that makes me a hypocrite..... :lol:

Anyway -- I digress - and after we had that conversation (which is cool having it with your wife by the way), I put on the Operation: Livecrime DVD and she said "that's more like it" ........ I had taken her to see QR 4 times over the years, and her favorite show was the Empire tour in which they play Operation: Mindcrime in it's entirety in the middle of the show...... she never forgot that show. I don't think anyone has .......

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Re: Queensryche / Rage for Order re-master........

Postby Stevie WOnder » Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:10 pm

LarryD wrote:It's a double whammy for me ...... not only do I not like the song and think that it was way out of place on an other wise perfect disc, my bigger gripe was that it was a cover song in the first place .......

To my ears - when I hear this song, I cringe. It just took away from a disc that would have been completely perfect to me ...... I've been on a re-master kick (again) recently and I pulled out the QR and Rush re-masters. As those close to me know, when I get in a certain mood, these bands come out. It's that time..... even my wife said recently, "uh-oh, what's wrong ? You've been playing QR non-stop lately, that's a sign"...... and then she said, "if you're going to play that Rage for Order disc over and over all day, could you please throw in some Operation:Mindcrime once in awhile to break it up - I love QR, but Geoff sounds weird on this disc" ..... I had to laugh my ass off on that comment, but then she explained that on the opening notes to Neue Regale, Geoff sounds like he is holding his nose while singing and that bothers her........I explained to her that it's a filter of some sort that processes the vocals to make it sound like that, and she asked why would he want that ? LOL ....... Then I went on to explain about my initial aversion to that style of vocal processing that I couldn't stand (Kamelot for example) .......and then as I was explaining, I realized that even QR had done this way back in 1986 and even earlier with The Warning if I remember....... but I didn't have a problem with it back then, so that makes me a hypocrite..... :lol:

Anyway -- I digress - and after we had that conversation (which is cool having it with your wife by the way), I put on the Operation: Livecrime DVD and she said "that's more like it" ........ I had taken her to see QR 4 times over the years, and her favorite show was the Empire tour in which they play Operation: Mindcrime in it's entirety in the middle of the show...... she never forgot that show. I don't think anyone has .......


I'm with you. Don't care for Gonna get close which is a Dalbello song, a Canadian chick. It's out of place lyrically and breaks the mood of the whole disc although not enough to take away the awesomeness.

I love the effect the processed vocals give to Neue Regel which is actually my fave song on that disc. I was there at the Forum in Montréal when they opened for Ozzy in 87 I think. They totally stole the show as they even got an encore. People were screaming so loud, they had to turn off the lights and bring them back out. Non need to tell you the dudes who tried to take away their stuff were booed off the stage. You can still find some of that footage online.

That was one of my best shows ever! What a disappointment Ozzy was after that.
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Re: Queensryche / Rage for Order re-master........

Postby elendil » Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:43 pm

Sir Exar Kun wrote:
***Gonna Get Close To You is way out of place to me ......always was. It killed the momentum of the "sci-fi" songs and feel of the disc...... I'm not sure why they opted to do this song instead of writing another killer song, but this song is the only song to me that is out of place .........every other song flows perfectly, and Neue Regale gets me every time ........that opening riff, and the ending vocal riff is absolutely monstrous ..........


Gonna have to disagree here.... I love that song. As odd and quirky as it is, it somehow fits in perfectly with that album. I love the way Geoff sings the pre-chorus on it, then the big kick in towards the end of the song....


I like it a lot there too... Not one of my favorite QR songs, but it has a creepy vibe and breaks up the album in the way ballads are intended to. It's kind of an evil ballad. LOL

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Re: Queensryche / Rage for Order re-master........

Postby sez » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:21 pm

I got into QR with RFO and The Warning at the same time, before Mindcrime came out. Mindcrime indeed struggled for a while: I saw them in 1988 in Philadelphia during the Mindcrime tour and they were opening for Def Leppard. We QR fans had to endure the Def Leppard fans sitting down during the Mindcrime songs while we stood and screamed and fist-pumped.

It was only years later that I realized Mindcrime had become a classic. I still prefer RFO, though, over the rest of their catalog.

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Re: Queensryche / Rage for Order re-master........

Postby LarryD » Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:45 pm

Since I got this re-master, I have not been able to stop playing it .......and I have gone back into the catalog and really immersed myself in the discs and era....... it was a superb musical and personal time for me, and I can't stop playing Queensryche now. I guess the early 80s was a good time for me, and this music brings me back to that time...... the wife keeps asking "whats up with the QR all the time" even though she loves it, and I just told her that it was a musical time for me that hit home emotionally......

I spend lots of time of You Tube watching old QR shows - and realizing what a wonderful time in life that was.......

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Re: Queensryche / Rage for Order re-master........

Postby ElegyFan » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:29 pm

My favorite QR album. I followed them from the EP and stopped at Promised Land.


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